pgmfi.org

you can always get the tunerpro version and tune for free but charge for the use of your wideband


just playing

I didn't know I needed it, but i will definetely pay $150 for it.
try comparing that price to other engine management product lines!

I've been thinking about this all day now because i feel like a dick because i did tune a car with the 150 version. Sorry john. It was only one car so far but I do have one setup for next week so I need to fix this problem with you or tune the car with uberdata 1.8. Either way its no biggie to me. I think if you want 450 though to tune cars you need to have all the plug ins already installed and make it more a solid project. I was under the idea that the 450 version had more features already in it. And when i talked to you it wasnt any different than the 150 dollar one so I didnt see the point at the time. I would like to see John get what he deserves out of the product that I have grown to love in a short time. I would like to see better documention and all the plugins already installed when i load up the program without any hunting. If you do that I got another 300 bucks for you. Otherwise I'll just tune all the other cars with uberdata and run crome on my car. Sorry about that car it won't happen again. Hope you read this and know it was a misunderstanding. I really won't be tuning any cars for fee except my friends which is 2 hondas and I won't tune anymore cars with crome now that I know better.


My grammer and english sucks sorry for long paragraph.

Josh

One word: Bandwagon.

HAHAHA! Sorry... Couldn't be helped!

Everything is a bandwagon. Look at Crome's new user base. A decent percentage are ex Uberdata users. I bet if Uberdata put out a version with a more windows like UI and some of the bugs worked out people would be saying "fuck crome, im not paying for that shit. Uberdata forever." And then Crome added something and people would swing. Hate to break it to you, but people are parasites. They'll suck a source dry if possible and if something better comes along they'll suck that dry. There is very little loyalty in the world. So you need read the "blah blah blah" as just that. People are full of shit and do whatever suits them best.

Thx for stating the obvious

I didn't think this topic would go this far... but It's good to get feedback, both good and bad.

Let me break down my responses according to what I remember reading.

1) Bugs are always going to be around, and I'll try fix as much of it as I can.

2) I totally accept reverse engineering someone else's work for educational purpose and to prove to yourself that you can do it (what do you think we're doing here), but I just don't agree with reverse engineering in order to ruin someone's livelihood.

3) The issue with having a free and a fee version is because I know people already make use of Crome Free for profitable reasons. Releasing the dataloggin/tuning features for free would only mean more people making more money off of Crome, without a cent going back to me. This is also why the only difference between Pro and Free versions are the datalogging /tuning features.

I think there are many exceptional members in pgmfi that have contributed far more than I have in terms of getting this whole movement going, and I've personally learned alot from it, that I think it's just unfair to charge people money for information that I've gotten for free myself. Writing Crome was my way (initially) of giving back to the community. However, I do believe that the tuning part of Crome stems directly from my own passion and efforts to make tuning faster, easier, and more precise. And so I believe that I am entitled to something for my work in this area. (Real-time programming should actually be considered part of this, but it came out ealier as a testament to prove it can be done before the Pro/Dealer versions were ever conceived and so it will remain part of the free version )

4) OK, the real answers to what the different versions mean. Free means AS IS, educational, non-profit, non-commercial use. Pro license, simply entitles you to the datalogging/tuner features but your still limited to non-profit, non-commercial use. The Dealer version allows you to use Crome as a product that can be added on as an expense on top of your tuning services, and only that -- meaning, just as you would charge people extra for tuning with Hondata because you had to pay for the software, you can do the same with Crome.

There are some loopholes (If would call it that) to the Pro license which benefits the user more than it does me. Technically the license is provided for the end user of the software and not the product of the software. Crome license is limitted to 1 (actually 2) PCs -- meaning with one license, you can only use it on one tuning computer. However, you can tune as many cars as you want as long as you are not profitting because of the use of the software. So If you buy one license, and you tuned 10 cars (all your friends') and you didn't profit from it, then you'll still be good. Also an exception is if you tune another person's car and charged that person soley based on skill and expertise as a tuner an not because of the software. This means that if you charge $100 per hour to tune someone's car with Hondata, you can't possibly ask for the same amount to tune using a Crome Pro license. Why? Because it would mean you are profitting from the use of the software just as you would be by using the Hondata software. Realistically, you should only be charing people for using your equipment, your time, and your skills. This is a very slim margin on what is considered profitting from use of the software, so if you really call youself an honest business, just consider and upgrade to a Dealer license.

I know that there isn't a lot of obvious reasons to why go with a Dealer instead of a Pro license, but this will become more evident in the upcoming release. This will be in terms of Dealer only plugins, and profit generating features that should only be available for those allowed to profit from the software. Now I am very confident that given any knowledgable person, it is faster to street tune with Crome than with Hondata (not sure about dyno tuning). So the time you and your customers save means time you could profit from.

While I'm at it, I might as well clear up another misunderstanding... Crome Pro/Dealer licenses only cover's the features available for that specific license -- meaning the datalogging/tuner features. Plug-ins are not considered part of Crome and must be used according to author's license agreement. It just so happens that most of the plugins are written by me, but they are technically not part of Crome. So a lot of ROM feature requests should really be forwarded towards the community instead of me only. Any requests regarding the software are given a higher priority (ie. datalog graphing). Hope that's clear... I'm not saying I won't create plug-ins for ROM features, but I can't guarantee that every request for ROM features will be taken into consideration.

[I said it was going to be long... read up]

I like your post John. I 100% agree with you.

Yeah John I will be getting a dealer version when my paycheck comes in next week. I really can't wait to see whats in store next. I agree with you a 100% and like I said this post might be going a little of subject bit I think i got a better understanding by reading this.

Josh

John,

You def cleared up a lot of stuff with that post. You are truly a dedicated developer.

Crome is another tool in my tool box, along with my pass thru harness, my wideband, my jacks, my air tools...and my brain...and after the 1st initial use with PRO (never even tried FREE), I was hooked.

BigWig, I understand where your loyalties lie, you have spent God knows how many hours supporting and furthering Uberdata through the forums, stopping the mis-spreading of info and your learnings into the inner working of UD. I maybe more than anyone understand your pain because of my involvement supporting each and every TurboEdit question that came to my email, PM...telephone while J. Parker was on hiatus for a while.

The difference is, he came back and is supporting his product again, posts when people have issues and fixes any bugs he can in a timely manner. Frankly, I don't think it's bandwagon at all...users of this type of EM aren't stupid. The ones who are save up for Hond$t$ and pay someone else to tune it for them. People are just fed up with the lack of support and development with UD, plain and simple. If Blake got off his ass I am certain he could fix bugs and make UD shine again...but where is he?

Just think...how nice it would be if there was an CROMBERDATA released..how nice it would be.

I think this is one of the things Doc Brown listed as things that would tear holes in the space time continuum... Or maybe it was in the book of Revelations? I don't remeber exactly, but it had something to do with the end of the universe...

LOL, for real. but that would be pretty cool if they got together and took the best of both and together worked out most of the bugs to make the ultimate OBD1 tuning software.

maybe even add the A/C switch activated flux capasitor

free vs. free, yes, uber makes things much easier with datalogging and all. however, i used uberdata for over a year and tuned many cars using it. the first time i tuned my own car with crome pro, i had a better tune in less than 2hrs. (my first time ever even using crome on a car) than i could have gotten with uber in 2 days of tuning. guranteed the people that are saying they're equally buggy, yada, yada, has never tuned with crome pro and i still use uberdata and think it's a great program also, however AT THIS CURRENT TIME, i feel i'm able to get a much better tune, much quicker with crome, but like bigwig said, a new uber release could change that as well. i don't take side's at all and i honestly felt like a trader at first when i used crome, but i have nothing but good to say about uber also, so it's not like i ditched uber for crome, i still use both, just depends what car.

To be honest. When I was a user of the Free Crome. I thought $150 bucks was too expensive. Because I’m from Brazil and U$ 150 in that occasion was about R$ 450. 3 times plus U$ 1 = R$ 3,00.

That’s a lot of money.

But when I just bought Crome: Jesus, this really kicks asses! Was the first thing I thought!

I think is a fair prize _MAINLY_ in the US! For us in Brazil is yet a lot expensive.

Today, I just can’t live without Crome. I was able to do some fine tuning and I’m not finish yet.

Don't bother with this people that don't give rights to the right people. They suck.

Peace.

Keep the good work John!
Implement some good cypher and a BADASS registration!