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Hacking up Honda's ECU
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 9:38 am 
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Somebody might know something about this problem so I`ll go ahead and ask.

I have a PP5 ecu and an LC-1.When I start the car up the AFR is at 17, then all of a sudden (like a flick of a switch) the AFRs go to normal 14.7 levels after 1-2 minutes.Is this something to do with the LC-1 and the ECU?My old oxygen sensor was a 1-wire one so I was thinking that the ECU is getting confused when it sees an oxygen sensor signal from the LC-1 right away (instead of the delayed signal from the 1-wire oxygen sensor).What do you think?or maybe I have to play around with the extra tables and make the mixture a little richer when the car is cold?What`s your take on this?


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 11:50 am 
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Are you feeding the ECU with the simulated narrow band signal from the LC-1 instead of a stock sensor?

If that is the case I can see what you are talking about happening, as the code in the ECU is making corrections for coolant temp and air inlet temp as the car is warming up...once those temps get to a certain level it starts depending more heavily on the o2 sensor reading to make corrections. What more concerns me is that you are running that lean at start up...every data logging session that I have done at start-up to try and understand the way the ECU functions shows a rich condition, not lean. Where is the LC-1 sensor placed in the exhaust exhaust system?

I run the narrow band up in the stock location (~ 8" from the head) and my WB down in the header collector...it takes about a minute for the stock sensor to start reading a true signal.

Kirk


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 5:27 pm 
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Yes.Correct, I have the LC-1 simulated signal going to the ECU and that`s the only oxygen sensor I have ( and it`s at its stock position around 8 inches into the exhaust manifold).When I start tuning i switch to the wideband signal with a switch.

My AFRs are rich when I start the car (for 10 or so seconds when the LC-1 is waming up), then when the led is solid red (meaning the lc-1 is fully hot) the AFRs jump to 17 and stays there for 2-3 minutes and all of a sudden it jumps back to 14.7 and everything is fine from there on......weird!

gtpilot wrote:
Are you feeding the ECU with the simulated narrow band signal from the LC-1 instead of a stock sensor?

If that is the case I can see what you are talking about happening, as the code in the ECU is making corrections for coolant temp and air inlet temp as the car is warming up...once those temps get to a certain level it starts depending more heavily on the o2 sensor reading to make corrections. What more concerns me is that you are running that lean at start up...every data logging session that I have done at start-up to try and understand the way the ECU functions shows a rich condition, not lean. Where is the LC-1 sensor placed in the exhaust exhaust system?

I run the narrow band up in the stock location (~ 8" from the head) and my WB down in the header collector...it takes about a minute for the stock sensor to start reading a true signal.

Kirk


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 8:27 pm 
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Can you datalog the IAT & ECT & A/F at the same time? Otherwise, yes, I would start by adding in some correction for either (or both) IAT & ECT in the Extra Tables to see what effect it has.

My problem is a bit different as I run E85 and it definitely needs ECT correction to keep it from going lean too quickly and then going back to normal just like yours...especially now that the weather is warm! And all I use to feed the ECU is the stock single wire o2 sensor so I know it is not that.

Kirk


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 6:48 am 
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sophocha wrote:

My AFRs are rich when I start the car (for 10 or so seconds when the LC-1 is waming up), then when the led is solid red (meaning the lc-1 is fully hot) the AFRs jump to 17 and stays there for 2-3 minutes and all of a sudden it jumps back to 14.7 and everything is fine from there on......weird!


how do you know its rich if the lc1 is warming up? Chances are if your afrs are 17 once the lc1 has warmed up, the afrs are probably gonna be the same those few seconds before.

Check your ect/ iat as the afrs change.

Maybe even try supply permanent power to the lc1 so you can see your afrs as the motor starts (when the lc1 is normally warming up


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 9:08 pm 
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it must be rich because the car sounds excellent for the first 10 seconds and then when the lc-1 finish warming up the car shakes a bit meaning lean ( and I confirmed this under logworks).

I`ve asked the same question on the innovate forums and I got a great answer to this.Apparently, the lc-1 has some advance setting you can tweak for this exact situation.You can choose the voltage you want to send to the ECU for the warm up period! There is a 'high impedance' setting as well......I need to tweak the settings and see if there is a change to the AFR rather than go to extratables.

a9turbo wrote:
sophocha wrote:

My AFRs are rich when I start the car (for 10 or so seconds when the LC-1 is waming up), then when the led is solid red (meaning the lc-1 is fully hot) the AFRs jump to 17 and stays there for 2-3 minutes and all of a sudden it jumps back to 14.7 and everything is fine from there on......weird!


how do you know its rich if the lc1 is warming up? Chances are if your afrs are 17 once the lc1 has warmed up, the afrs are probably gonna be the same those few seconds before.

Check your ect/ iat as the afrs change.

Maybe even try supply permanent power to the lc1 so you can see your afrs as the motor starts (when the lc1 is normally warming up


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 6:26 am 
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lc1 takes about 30 seconds to warm up. in that first 30 seconds after start, post start fuel corrections are in effect before it will run off the maps.

Does this happen cold (first thing in the mornin)or warm start


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 7:56 pm 
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a9turbo wrote:
lc1 takes about 30 seconds to warm up. in that first 30 seconds after start, post start fuel corrections are in effect before it will run off the maps.

Does this happen cold (first thing in the mornin)or warm start


it`s when the car is cold....it must be the advance settings in LC-1 that I need to tweak (send the right voltage to the ecu when the car is cold)


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2011 10:49 pm 
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My car acted like yours after I put bigger injectors in.

my car runs off the maps till the ect hits 160, then it goes into closed loop using the wideband O2. I had to add quite a bit of fuel when the ect is cold-tapering down to no fuel added at 170 and above. (I'm running NeptuneRTP on a D16A6) If you turn the key on, but don't start the engine, the LC-1 should heat itself in 10-15 seconds, My AFR usually reads 13 or so, and climbs slowly up to like 16 while the LC-1 is heating, then it goes full scale to 22.


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