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Hacking up Honda's ECU
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PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2006 1:20 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 2:09 am
Posts: 4383
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
Banners, Wiki, etc. should be fixed as DNS entries propagate.
Everyone that sent me an email, PM or IM asking for various things should send some paypal to pgmfi@pgmfi.org We're lucky to still have free hosting. LUCKY. If this place had to pay for hosting, it wouldn't exist based on the level of financial support it receives from vendors and users. This is a reality regardless of whether you choose to believe it or not.

The vast majority of people here seem to have forgotten that this place was founded on a COMMUNITY mindset. Some people write ASM code for ECUs. Some people write userspace software that people use. Some people test things and provide constructive feedback. Some people take the time to make Wiki entries that help people learn. Some people take the time to answer people's questions. Some people buy ads to support the site. Some people can't really do anything else, so they donate money. Most people seem to leech.

A lot of people lately seem like they come on here with a ghetto-child "gimme gimme gimme" attitude, overwhelming the site with questions and problems without making much of an effort to use existing resources or contribute anything back. I know there are hundreds, if not thousands, of Crome Pro users that think what we do here is valuable enough to give John Cui $150. I know there are tons of people who use the information here for commercial purposes and DON'T code ROMs, code plugins, code apps or test stuff. Most of them don't even take this time to answer questions after their own personal dilemmas are resolved.

I'm sick of this shit. Things will be changing here in big ways soon unless (collectively) the community starts living up to the expectations it was founded on. This place is a resource, not a right. Do not take it for granted - it may not be available to you in the future in the same ways it is now unless things change.

By the way, I *do* recognize that there are many people who do try to give back in some form. I'm not addressing the majority of this to you. If it don't apply, let it slide.

-Dave

p.s. This thread is being left open for discussion and debate. I want to hear what you think. I want to hear any suggestions you have. I'm not necessarily going to follow suggestions, but I will certainly listen.


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PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2006 3:06 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 2:11 am
Posts: 1053
I'm totally in accord with you on this Dave. If the community doesnt work, just lock it up.


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PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2006 4:43 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2005 11:40 am
Posts: 365
Location: France - Paris
It's shame...
The thing I personaly dislike is the people that came in here and WANT to have an answer and quick !!!
You MUST answer their problem, it's a due :shock:

Well I know I don't do a lot but I'm proud of being part of it and still read/help as I can. My goal was to understand how all this stuff is supposed to work (very personal map & rom) against generic noname brand x mugen skunk2 spoon ebay chip... :lol:

I just did a map for myself (stock B16A2) and for a friend of mine that own a hybrid B16A2 typeR with a bad ecu/map/rom.

I didn't and don't want to do commercial thing with all this stuff, it's just for fun and learning for me. A touch of practice and that's it.
Now I know that with this community, I've learn so much that I can do everything that I want on my car and tune it right (or not so bad :lol:).

I've tried to give some of my little ecu knowledge on an other car forum (in French), I own stuff from guys in here, trying to test things for others, give some excel sheets too.

Just trying to be thankful and civic... :wink:


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PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2006 5:32 pm 
I know I havent really contributed much lately, my life has been crazy, but I do want to get back into coding a cross platform editor. Im single again and should have a decent amount of free time in a few weeks (along with no money to go out) so hopefully ambition will kick back in and I can actually help produce again.

Let me know what your plan is for "changing" the way the community here works, wether it be subscription or what not. I'm sorry I haven't been able to afford to contribute back to the site monetarily, but I am still a poor college kid (I will gladly pay a fair subscription fee though, I would be very happy to not have to read 10 threads a day about idiots to lazy to search asking for handouts).


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PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2006 7:36 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 2:25 am
Posts: 1163
Location: San Francisco CA
luti wrote:
Let me know what your plan is for "changing" the way the community here works, wether it be subscription or what not.


No doubt, let me know too. Something has to happen because as this place gets bigger and more exposed, its only going to get worse. I dont want it to go away, though!

I have really no suggestions except new people need to have a large trial period (number of posts? time here? get voted in to the regular domain?) where they are not allowed to post in certain forums (development forums most definately).

Or maybe there needs to be a mandatory donation to the site ($$ or help with the effort) to even view some of the forums.

I would offer to help more but I have 0 time and money.

Ben


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PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2006 9:46 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 2:43 am
Posts: 518
I think its time John Cui stepped up. A majority of the new traffic is due to the fact Crome is becoming more popular by the day. People are paying him money to develop, but it doesn't seem like he's doing any of the troubleshooting on the forum. I say its time for him to post up some FAQs, how tos, and help files to keep the idiot population down. I don't think it should fall on the shoulders of the members. If Crome was entirely free, maybe it would be different, but because its a pay software I think its necessary to step up and fill in the blanks.


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PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2006 10:04 pm 
I am very n00b to all this but I have found it very interesting reading and was a bit bummed while the wiki and stuff was down. I bought a PR4 and fired up chrome and have found it pretty interesting to tinker with this stuff. Computers are a hobby of mine so this is just a natural extension of what I call fun :). Eventually in the future when I am not on a college budget I will have a built car to tune and play with.

Anyway, I just thought I'd put out a thanks to you guys who are open to share all this information and these tools and run this site. Without the open sharing of knowledge it wouldn't be the same to the tinkerers and hobbyists like me.


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PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2006 10:02 am 
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Joined: Tue May 24, 2005 4:18 pm
Posts: 64
Location: Columbus, OH
bigwig wrote:
I think its time John Cui stepped up. A majority of the new traffic is due to the fact Crome is becoming more popular by the day. People are paying him money to develop, but it doesn't seem like he's doing any of the troubleshooting on the forum. I say its time for him to post up some FAQs, how tos, and help files to keep the idiot population down. I don't think it should fall on the shoulders of the members. If Crome was entirely free, maybe it would be different, but because its a pay software I think its necessary to step up and fill in the blanks.


I totally agree. I was somewhat familiar with Uberdata before buying Crome... Things with this software are a little disorganized and to my knowledge, I thought the current download wasn't quite a complete version anyway (something about the extra fuel tools?). It would be kick ass if there were more FAQs available about what plug-ins are necessary and which ones are fun toys, and how to get started. I think a lot of noobs just start downloading and installing everything, then come crying to this site, saying Crome sucks and it doesn't work! I also emailed John awhile ago about the "getting started video" not being available... To my knowledge, it's still not.

But once the basic idea takes hold, I think people will be more apt to think for themselves or RTFW than ask stupid questions. I think a lot of you guys forget what it's like to be new to tuning... it is extremely overwhelming and frustrating. Xenocron's writeup was awesome but I think a good FAQ is in order, as well as explanations of the plug-ins.

Perhaps you guys could come up with an official PGMFI IQ test? Passing different portions unlocks different areas? I'm joking... :lol:


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PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2006 11:42 am 
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Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 2:45 am
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95RedEX wrote:
Perhaps you guys could come up with an official PGMFI IQ test? Passing different portions unlocks different areas? I'm joking... :lol:


Yeah.. Not such a bad idea, about ten years ago, there was something like that on hybrid.honda-perf.org, it wouldn't register you until you had completerd some questions about some basic honda stuff (most of which could be found on the website anyhow).. Does anyone remember?


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PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2006 1:50 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 3:09 am
Posts: 55
95RedEX wrote:
I totally agree. I was somewhat familiar with Uberdata before buying Crome... Things with this software are a little disorganized and to my knowledge, I thought the current download wasn't quite a complete version anyway (something about the extra fuel tools?). It would be kick ass if there were more FAQs available about what plug-ins are necessary and which ones are fun toys, and how to get started. I think a lot of noobs just start downloading and installing everything, then come crying to this site, saying Crome sucks and it doesn't work! I also emailed John awhile ago about the "getting started video" not being available... To my knowledge, it's still not.


That is probably the biggest problem facing the non-core PGMFI group, you know what I mean, the guys who aren't actively partaking in developing code.

To keep up with Crome, you pretty much have to watch the dev forum like a hawk, and read everything twice. I find it makes the process more difficult than it really needs to be.

I personally have no problem throwing in a few bucks to help with hosting fees, and agree that either a one time membership fee to the forum would work well, or an extended trial period for new members that would only allow them to post in the newbies section.


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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2006 9:23 am 
I Agree! for sure! I'm doing my part.


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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2006 10:27 am 
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Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2005 7:36 am
Posts: 234
Location: veria-greece-macedonia
i don't feel so comfortably
posting here
but,here is my opinion.
many people want to learn,many people reading all the day
because they want to involve with the tuning of
their ecu,like i am.
maybe we cant write asm,and can't code plugins
but they feel happy because this forum is here and they have the chance to learn.
for people i describe above you can ask for a small donate
and by this you can find who really care about this forum.
please don't lock it


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PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2006 4:08 pm 
I know my skill level is in no way on the same platform as most of the developers here.. I'm more on a hardware level and trying to learn about the relation between software/hardware.. This site has helped alot.. I have a guilty conscience about asking questions as I think I'd fit into the "ghetto child gimme gimme gimme" Category and that's completely not my mindset.. I've posted a few helpful things in this forum and try to help whenever possible reguardless of what help I may need..

As my skills increase, I'll become more helpful.. I'm deeply facinated with the way this caliber of ecu functions, and have no intentions of leaving it behind anytime soon..

I don't have a problem with a subscription fee, however I think it could detour a couple good skilled people from entering the site.. If it was on a test bassis, that could prove useful but at the same time how would you determine the amount of access? People like me, if limited, might not be able to learn much.. I dunno.. either way, change could be good, on the other hand it could be detrimental to development..?

Let me know how I can help..


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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2006 11:34 am 
I agree aswell, I think the access based on answering questions is a good idea. Maybe the questions should be more community based rather than tech based? So as people don't get the delusion their asking a computer questions. That there is a person taking the time to answer them. When I first found this site I have to admit everyone was more relaxed and friendly, the onflux of people not taking time to read and asking the same questions over and over is taking it's toll on everyones nerves. So come on fellas READ, READ and READ somemore( I got Crome to work, asking relatively few questions and I'm not that smart, but am willing to read)and Register your crome. If you have the money to buy turbos and intercoolers you can find 25 bucks to register what maybe the most important tool in your set up!


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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2006 1:01 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 3:03 am
Posts: 1235
Location: Salem, OR
Yeah, that drives me nuts. People with more money than sense show up with all sorts of questions regarding integrating expensive engine hardware, yet they won't spend the money for the quality software. I'm still working on my coding skills, but I try to help more with explanations and research. It seems to be really common, as in once or twice a week, that I am answering the same questions over and over again. Nobody seems to be reading anything anymore. I am all for a mandatory donation or test. Whatever it takes to keep this place running smoothly and keep the clutter to a minimum. Or maybe we need to institute a policy of not answering questions that we know are in the forums or wiki.


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