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Hacking up Honda's ECU
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PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 2:26 pm 
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hi,

was just wondering what rom can i use to run the b16a on a p28 ecu ?

Im running a b16a jdm motor with p30 jdm ecu.

Got my hand on a virgin p28-c00. Im done adding the capacitors and 74hc373 although not sure if i have done it correctly.

Can the p28 handle ELD, KNOCK, and O2 sensor ?

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after removing the solder on the VIA holes on the board some of the solder splashed on the near by traces. I noticed that it has melted the varnish, some of the solder splash has fused itself with the varnish. What can i use to clean this ?


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PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2015 5:12 am 
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ok so i have tested out my work and flashed a usdm p30 rom on my p28 ecu. so far i noticed that the idle is higher. i also tried the jdm p30 rom and disabled knock and removed checksum. The engine started fine no cel, was goin to drive it around and when was at first gear and about 1.5k the engine just bogged down and die. Still no cel start it up and same thing happend. Replaced with usdm p30 rom and it worked just fine disabled knock, eld, and pa sensor.

I thought the p28 can run the p30 dump just by disabling knock. What could be causing the problem ?

My main objective on this project is make the engine perform a bit better than the stock rom. But i have no idea where to start, i tried to google tutorials and even read articles about tuning which got me nowhere. if maybe someone would be nice enough to point me to the right direction as to how to achieve my goal?

I don't have an AFR meter as i have no idea how to use it anyway. My goal now is to make a stable rom that would run my motor properly (base map) and maybe tune that later on.

I have no plans on goin to the dyno im not looking to gain huge horse power, i understand some people tune thier engine with just the use of AFR wideband meter.

I have no plans to go into competition just doin this for fun and knowledge.


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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2015 12:09 am 
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Why use a p28 when you already have a p30? Anyways, use a p30 rom in your p28. Your p28 in the pics does not have a knock board, so no it cannot support knock. It does support ho2s, and I believe eld. As for your soldier in the varnish, you usually strip all varnish from board before doing work on it, but you can wash it off now with brake clean and this will fix your problem. Your soldier work looks good by the way.

Now your second post:

Don't try tuning your car without an afr meter of some kind, I like the lc-1. The lc-1 has been replaced by the lc-2, but alot of people have issues with it, and it has alot of background noise, imo, just use an lc-1. With out a wideband you will be wasting your time, losing power, and likely causing serious damage to your engine. What rom editor are you using? I am assuming crome. Did you select the propper transmission when building your rom? What are your data logs showing? Whats your afr when this happens?(need that wideband) With out data logging it can be hard to say what is going on, but I am thinking your map is running rich. All this is part of the learning curve, don't get discuraged.


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PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2015 10:25 am 
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mrhondadude wrote:
Why use a p28 when you already have a p30? Anyways, use a p30 rom in your p28. Your p28 in the pics does not have a knock board, so no it cannot support knock. It does support ho2s, and I believe eld. As for your soldier in the varnish, you usually strip all varnish from board before doing work on it, but you can wash it off now with brake clean and this will fix your problem. Your soldier work looks good by the way.


I just found out that my p30 ecu has some problems. after putting in p30 rom in the p28 ecu i noticed that the idle was better than my stock p30 ecu. Got me very curious as to why this is. So i inspected my ecu and found traces of electrolytic, seems like one of the capacitors is leaking. I didn't even noticed it until i used a cotton swab on the board. Tried to source the same capacitors locally. I just can't believe how hard it is to find the same capacitors for a jdm p30 ecu in our country. If it wasn't for the p28 ecu i would have used my p30 ecu until it got fried from the the leak. :roll:

I wasn't planning on touching the p30 for back up. Besides smd parts are not available in our country. Although i got some smd 74hc373 but i don't have the smd capacitor and resistor yet (don't know the value). I didn't really clean the varnish on the board i just used the soldering iron to clean up the splashes and then use a magnifying glass to check for short circuit. i was thinking if i strip the varnish i wouldn't have anyting to coat it with again for protection.

As for the eld i have enable eld from chrome and it seems to be working. You are right there is no knock board on the p28, but it seems like the jdm p30 knock board can be transplanted on the p28 although there is no place to screw the knock board on the p28 casing. I didn't know i had to choose transmission in chrome. I have used the car a couple of times and seems to drive better since the idle is much more stable. Il try to load the 203.bin in chrome again, do i choose b16 hydro tranny?

I was planning to getting an LM-2 is that any good ? or the lc-1 would be better ? The lc-1 is just a cable that connects to a comport on a computer right? I haven't made any changes on the stock 203.bin rom that i downloaded, i guess i would be using the p28 for a while until i am able to get capacitors fro my p30.

Do i need a data logger now to do some basic tuning ? or will a AFR be enough for now? Im a bit hesitant to buy all this stuff yet since i have zero experience on tuning. :D


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PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2015 1:51 am 
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No problem using a p28, I was just curious. You can use through-hole components to repair surface mount boards by just soldering the leads of the component to the pads on the pcb. You dont have to be exact on the cap. values, but you do want to be close. If you use higher voltage and heat range they will last longer. I usually use 35volt 105*c caps for repairs. After all reapirs are made, tested, and passed, I usually use some cheap clear laquer spray paint to recoat the board.

sometimes havine the wrong transmission selected in crome can cause afr fluctuations (usuallt very rich in high rpm fallowed by very lean) because the ecu was anticipating a shift. This doesnt happen all the time, but it is a good thing to fix before it becomes a problem that you cant figure out. Are you using a b16 hydro trans? Crome has a list of the most poular transmissions. If you are using something not on the list, or custom, we will adress that.


The lm-2 is a good tool. I have heard in rare cases some people having the same noise issues as the lc-2. The lc-1 is defenately a cheaper option, but you will need a laptop to use it, but you will need this for logging and rtp anyways. If tou are using crome free, you can use freelog. Beware the afr logging in freelog can be a bit buggy, and I recomend open the freelog window, and the wideband window side by side so you can see real afr, and the freelog afr. If you are using crome pro or dealer, your logger is built in. I use this data cable often, it works great and is cheap. If you need the driver i can post it also. http://www.ebay.com/itm/USB-To-RS232-TT ... 4855c7a330 you should log afr because by the time you read it on a guage or screen, the event is gone and you have no idea where to adjust.

this might help with those cap values. It mostly for through hole ecus, but check it out anyways.
http://wikitest.pgmfi.org/twiki/bin/vie ... rtsForECUs


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PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2015 8:21 am 
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OK thanks for the info. IL keep that in mind. Well i am actually looking for good quality capacitors, The ones that are sold here locally have brands that are unheard of from china. I am kinda hesitant to put that in my ecu, IL look for Japanese brand capacitors just to be safe e.g. RUBYCON, NICHICON.

I have located the USB TO RS232 TTL UART cable locally online. I saw in youtube there is a russian program called the HONDA OBD PC SCANNER? i wonder if it will work with this cable. I am using the free CHROME version.

How much does the lc-1 cost anyway so i'll be needing the oxygen sensor as well, can you send me a link?

Thanks


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PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2015 10:31 am 
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With out indash guage:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Innovate-LC-1-W ... f4&vxp=mtr

with indash guage blue:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Innovate-LC1-Wi ... 51&vxp=mtr

with indash guage red:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Innovate-LC1-Wi ... 1d&vxp=mtr

with indash guage green:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Innovate-LC1-Wi ... fc&vxp=mtr

with indash analog style guage white:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Innovate-LC1-LC ... 6f&vxp=mtr

with indash analog style guagle black:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Innovate-LC1-LC ... d8&vxp=mtr


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PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2015 12:33 pm 
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Wow thanks for the link. :)

by the way i have one of these collecting dust. i remembered it has comport rs232 and pl2303. i wonder if this can be use to data log.

Image

it uses PL2303HXC and max3232

this is a ck3 i used it to power my xbox loader before now its just collecting dust. It has a comport and usb port.

here is the pin out

Image


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PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2015 10:04 pm 
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Idk if you use that or not, I am not familiar with it. I quess it is possible bases off what you tell me, but it may take some trial and error attempts. Honda ecus use rs232 at a baud of 38000, but on a 5v line, I think what you have uses a 3.3v rs232.


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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2015 5:19 am 
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tycs03 wrote:
I saw in youtube there is a russian program called the HONDA OBD PC SCANNER? i wonder if it will work with this cable. I am using the free CHROME version.
This software work only with the Honda protocol and not with Crome protocol.


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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2015 8:18 pm 
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dip wrote:
his software work only with the Honda protocol and not with Crome protocol.


Oh ok thanks for the clarification. So that's why in youtube the cable was plugged in the stock dlc connector. Does this mean i could use the usb to rs232 ttl cable to connect to the stock dlc and data log the engine ? It would be good for engine diagnosis if this would work.

mrhondadude wrote:
Idk if you use that or not, I am not familiar with it. I quess it is possible bases off what you tell me, but it may take some trial and error attempts. Honda ecus use rs232 at a baud of 38000, but on a 5v line, I think what you have uses a 3.3v rs232


Yeah im not so sure with that either. I have ordered the usb to rs232 ttl cable and its in the mail. I have been reading up on data logging and as i understand i need to remove J-12 RIGHT ? to get a full duplex transmission.

I also read in the wiki page that an accelerometer can be used to compute for HP? It got me a bit interested, and found the bluetooth to serial ttl adaptor which can be used to data log using an app. Was wondering if anyone knows if it also uses the Mobile phones built in accelerometer and log g forces? But i won't get into this first. Il try the cable first and see where it goes from there :)


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PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2015 2:41 am 
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tycs03 wrote:
Oh ok thanks for the clarification. So that's why in youtube the cable was plugged in the stock dlc connector. Does this mean i could use the usb to rs232 ttl cable to connect to the stock dlc and data log the engine ? It would be good for engine diagnosis if this would work.
The cable is not USB to RS232 ttl but USB to K-Line.


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PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2015 3:46 am 
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If all you looking for is cummunication through the 3pin dlc, it can be done. I have two dealer scantools and they give pid lists and can log just by plugging in, however it is difficult to translate this to tuning software. You would find that you actually get faster real time data from cn3 inside the ecu than through the dlc.

yes, you need to cut j12 for full duplexing, other wise it is no different than going to the dlc. Aftermarket data programs are set up only for full duplexing.(half duplexing, the ecu talks then waits for responce. Full duplexing the ecu can talk and listen at the same time, but it still cant chew gum in either mode(sorry I know lame humor)).

if you want accelerometer and phone logging, check this site. The app works great and has built in hp/torque calculators to give you real numbers. http://www.linszter.net/alkalmazasok/ho ... %E2%84%A2/


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PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2015 3:52 am 
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dip wrote:
tycs03 wrote:
Oh ok thanks for the clarification. So that's why in youtube the cable was plugged in the stock dlc connector. Does this mean i could use the usb to rs232 ttl cable to connect to the stock dlc and data log the engine ? It would be good for engine diagnosis if this would work.
The cable is not USB to RS232 ttl but USB to K-Line.



I am assuming tou guys are talking about j2534?


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PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2015 4:20 am 
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All information, concerning the protocol Honda, are already on the forum.


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