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Hacking up Honda's ECU
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 Post subject: CBR 1000RR and k-line
PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 11:24 am 
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I am busy with a datalogger DL1 and want to let ik talk to the DLC from Honda. Pin 30 from the ECM/ECU look like it supports a K-Line protocol. Now I want to look at the K-Line with my logic analyzer and want to use the information (TPS, RPM, etc,,) to feed my DL1 datalogger.

What do you think about this idea? I can always get the analogue signels, but this is more interesting and gives me less wiring.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:27 pm 
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I have seen this http://forum.pgmfi.org/viewtopic.php?f=57&t=5871&hilit=kline&start=75 but it looks older. Will it work on an 2010 ECU from a CBR 1000RR? I will try it


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 4:46 pm 
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Oke it look likes the Race Technology DL1 MK1 has some own RT Protocol. I do not now if i feed the messages comming from "kline adapter based on Didiers design" are adapted by the Datalogger.

How can I fix this? Didiers? Can I make my own converter? Does someone have the RT protocol or some other idea?

If I want to use the datalogger this is possible by connecting all the sensors as analogue input. But then I get a lot of cables!

Thanks in advance


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 10:29 am 
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If I correctly understand what you are trying to do then I think you are going to have some major problems.

Most ECU diagnostic protocols are ones in which the Host (the device that records the data) interrogates the ECU. That is the Host sends a packet of data the requests a specific group of engine parameters. The ecu replies with a packet of data containing the requested parameters.

The Innovate DL1 is a passive data recorder. It simply listens to the serial data channel and records any packets that it receives. The packets are sent periodically by a device like an oxygen sensor or other serial channel Innovate device.

Do you follow the fundamental difference here? Your ECU is waiting for something to ask it for the data while your DL1 is waiting for data.

What you need is a device to facilitate the conversation. One that speaks Honda and will interrogate the ECU, convert it to Innovate protocol and periodically pass it to the DL1.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 3:47 pm 
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Thanks i do understand. This is exactly what i want to establish....

I want to use this:
http://d.pelegri.free.fr/K-Line/ with an extra addition...an uController who send the 0x22 (or question message) to the kLine. So the ECU is spitting the answers periodically back.

But:
- Is 0x22 the initiation message? Can I somehow obtain it with a logic analyzer?
- Is the answer from the ECU ready to be used to send directly to the passive DL1? Or do I have to translate it to an Race Technology protocol?

What do you think? I want to do it this way because I think I can learn:
- to make some electronics (i already made an CanBus interface...for learning purposes)
- understand the working of an ECU (i think Honda works this way...but other ECU also)
- in general


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 4:00 pm 
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Actually it turns out I'm the one that is confused. I thought you were talking about the Innovate DL-32 data logger. I have no experience with your DL1 by Race Technologies.

As for the ECU protocol I would check out this thread. http://forum.pgmfi.org/viewtopic.php?f=57&t=22199


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 4:45 pm 
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I have the Race Technology protocol:
http://www.race-technology.com/wiki/index.php/General/SerialDataFormat

So when i get the K-Line data in and translate it to the RT protocol....it should work. Doesn't it? But can i read the protocol Honda (same as the link you have send me) with an logic analyzer? And do I have to make the board (see my previous url)? Or can I read the K-Line with UART?


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 5:08 pm 
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In this thread they talk about "a sniffer". This sounds like some hardware. Is this the same as where I am referring too?


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 6:44 am 
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Is this a tool how you hook up the PC to the ECU?

http://www.mafak.com/2008/08/making-aldl-cable-to-connect-pc-to-obd1.html

That means i can use this schematic also to make the decoder...

So do i go for the solution (Pin ECU = K/Line)
- K/Line <---> IC <---> RT protocol decoder <---> DL1 device
- K/Line <--> ALDL interface <--> IC <--> RT protocol decoder <---> DL1 device
- K/Line <--> ALDL interface <--> IC <---> DAC <---> anlogue input RT

What do you think???


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 7:44 am 
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The design from "dip" looks like an TTL to RS232 converter. Where the CD4007 looks like handling the invertion step and voltage level converter....correct? On the internet they speak off using an L9637, but this IC is hard to get looks like it. My suggestion is that <dip> used the CD4007 as an alternative for the L9637. This because the Honda does not use the exact ISO 9141/2.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 9:38 am 
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I like to use the FTDI (there are many others) USB to serial TTL converter cable. It looks like a regular usb cable but has a TTL UART molded into the plug end. RS232 form factor is being obsoleted and very few new Notebooks, Laptops, etc have them.

http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/163/DS_TTL-232R_CABLES-217672.pdf

Once the serial is handled then the Kline voltage conversion is pretty simple. The Kline to TTL Rx is as simple as a resistor. The TTL Tx to Kline can be either a a couple of open collector Logic gates (usb has 5V available to power them) or a couple of transistors; one to invert logic, the other to drive the kline low.

NOTE this circuit works with TTL level (0-5V) Tx/Rx only.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 11:21 am 
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I will look into this. But the RS232 is used on the DL1 and not the TTL....


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 4:28 am 
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I thought off this concept design. The K-Line TTL (12V) from the DLC connector Honda to the RS232 with the CD4007 (inverter and voltage regulation). Then feed the RS232 signal to an 16F887 (RX/TX) and convert it with DAC to an analog signal (0-4.9015V). So catchin the TPS signal and convert it to an analog signal. Somethin like: TPS 0% = 0V and TPS 100%=4.9015V.

What do you all think about the concept idea? Now I still need the answer from Didier ;-))


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 11:00 am 
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BMWMPower wrote:
...What do you all think about the concept idea? ...



I think you are making a lot of extra work for yourself. Race Tech has an ECU interface

http://www.race-technology.com/wiki/index.php/Hardware/ECUInterface

Even though it does not work with your ECU it shows that their data logger is designed to accept an external serial data stream with engine data.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 5:34 am 
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@RidgeRacer True, but for learning purposes I want to built it myself. I hope you understand this...


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