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Hacking up Honda's ECU
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 5:57 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 2:16 am
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Location: Puerto Rico
I'd like to power up the ECU on my test bench but simply applying 12 volts to A25 and GND to A24 doesn't work. Has anyone been able to completely power one up without building an engine sim?


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:17 pm 
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Location: chicago burbs
what are you trying to accomplish? to datalog it or make sure that it turns on the fuel pump line?


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:33 pm 
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Location: Puerto Rico
I want it to power up in the same state as when you put the key in accessory. The fuel pump coming on would be included - yes.

Here's my situation. I chip LOTS of ECUs here in Puerto Rico for resale and have even been able to fix a couple with obvious componenet failures but those are easy. I've also fixed an ECU with a bad injector transistor (only fired 3 out of 4) and and another with a bad transistor pack which didn't let the fuel pump come on - solid cel.

I have come across MANY solid cel ECUs that I can't figure out and even with a few suggestions from you in the past on open surface mount caps, resistors, etc.

What I want to do is troubleshoot the ECUs out of my car because I've had problems in the past testing ECUs which blow fuses or burn sensors in my daily driver. Also, by powering up a good ECU, I can document the different voltages on the various pins and then compare this with a failing ECU to isolate the circuitry affected. It's much easier to trace a pin back to affected components when you know it's voltage or state is different from a working ECU :wink:

Can you help me Relic? I know you are realy good with ECUs dude!

Thanks!


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:41 pm 
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Location: chicago burbs
the fuel pump comes on with Run not Acc. :wink:

if you chip and repair a lot of ECUs it would be a good idea to take the plunge into building a simulator.
They really are fairly simple to contruct if you have time and money to do so.

It's really the only way to power up an ECU without having little strange things that will piss you off over time.
(this CEL set causes this output to not work, etc)


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 8:04 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 2:16 am
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Location: Puerto Rico
...and how is your SIM coming along?


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 8:11 pm 
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Location: chicago burbs
7rrivera7 wrote:
...and how is your SIM coming along?

it's in the same place as it was about ... well it's been there for a while now.
lack of time and energy, but it's still on my "to do" list.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 8:28 am 
http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/megasquirt-stimulator-unassembled-p-30.html
New Stim board for Megasquirt. Don't see why it wouldn't work on Honda ECU's.
Just a thought....


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 2:47 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2008 11:26 am
Posts: 65
Location: Houston, Texas
This seems like a good effort/project I am interested in doing even perhaps starting a group effort on. Building a bench tester for OBDI honda ECUs I know that there is a computer based sim made in Korea by LabView that does it. But I think we can get it done especially if we team up.

If I can get my Pai Mr. Rivera from P.R. to contact me. I would be more than glad to get started on this project. I live in Houston TX and I have a few OBD1 ECUs we can use to get started.

Here is all my contact information
Daniel Escobedo
(832)798-0000
djesco@hotmail.com

If anyone can contribute let us know.

7rrivera7 wrote:
I want it to power up in the same state as when you put the key in accessory. The fuel pump coming on would be included - yes.

Here's my situation. I chip LOTS of ECUs here in Puerto Rico for resale and have even been able to fix a couple with obvious componenet failures but those are easy. I've also fixed an ECU with a bad injector transistor (only fired 3 out of 4) and and another with a bad transistor pack which didn't let the fuel pump come on - solid cel.

I have come across MANY solid cel ECUs that I can't figure out and even with a few suggestions from you in the past on open surface mount caps, resistors, etc.

What I want to do is troubleshoot the ECUs out of my car because I've had problems in the past testing ECUs which blow fuses or burn sensors in my daily driver. Also, by powering up a good ECU, I can document the different voltages on the various pins and then compare this with a failing ECU to isolate the circuitry affected. It's much easier to trace a pin back to affected components when you know it's voltage or state is different from a working ECU :wink:

Can you help me Relic? I know you are realy good with ECUs dude!

Thanks!


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 10:54 am 
i like the idea of a computer based ecu simulator.... please count me in!


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 11:00 am 
http://www.ni.com/pdf/csma/us/360544a2.pdf

pdf of the engine sim you mentioned...


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 4:07 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2008 11:26 am
Posts: 65
Location: Houston, Texas
I dont know why my reply did not show up HUMMMMMmmm interesting to say the least.

In short I bought a 94 Honda Civic EX for this project
I plan to record and measure the signal types while the vehicle is in 3 stages on off running
I also plan to pin out the harness and make one for the gagues so I can monitor them while I am emulating a running engine one I have the signals right.
In short I bought more than 10 harneses for Honda and Integra models made durring 92-95 OBD1 seems there is little diffrence between them durring the initial evaluation. except VTEC and Manual vs Auto Trans. Some of the easy outputs are as follows:
Alternator (56) Analog Mux (54) Ground (59) MAP(60) TPS (61) etc.. and I do mean etc....
The OBD PinOut Schematic OBD1 92-95 seems to be very benificial for this.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 4:11 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2008 11:26 am
Posts: 65
Location: Houston, Texas
I forgot to mention if anyone needs OEM Harneses let me know I have several of them. <I do mean several. :oops:
My contact information is here in this forum.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 11:43 am 
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Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2008 11:26 am
Posts: 65
Location: Houston, Texas
These are the pin designations for the OBD1 ECU as well as their wire color and voltage. I always have a hard time finding this information when I need it as I'm sure others do, so here it is

KEY:
(voltage values measured in DC Volts unless otherwise specified)
V = Volts
Wht = White
Blk = Black
Grn = Green
Yel = Yellow
Brn = Brown
Blu = Blue
Org = Orange

A, B, D= Slot. Numbers are read up and down from left to right, not straight across

A1-INJ1 INJECTOR#1 Brown, Battery Voltage with KEY ON ENGINE OFF
A2-INJ4 INJECTOR#4 Yellow, Battery Voltage with KEY ON ENGINE OFF
A3-INJ2 INJECTOR#2 Red, Battery Voltage with KEY ON ENGINE OFF
A4-VTS VTEC solenoid GRN/YEL, n/a
A5-INJ3 INJECTOR#3 Blue, Battery Voltage with KEY ON ENGINE OFF
A6-PO2SHTC O2 sensor heating element Org/Wht, Battery Voltage KEY ON ENGINE OFF
A7-FLR1 fuel pump Grn/BLK, Battery Voltage KEY ON ENGINE OFF
A8-empty A7 and A8 have the same circurt, so they can be the same
A9-IACV IAC valve Blk/Blu, About 10v KEY ON ENGINE OFF on Warm engine
A10-empty
A11-EGR Control Solenoid Valve (if the ECU has it) Red, n/a
A12-FANC engine Error! Hyperlink reference not valid. temp switch Blu/red, n/a
A13-MIL MIL (check engine light) Blu/wht, n/a
A14-empty
A15-ACC (a/c compressor clutch) Red/Blu, n/a
A16-ALT C alternator Wht/Grn, n/a
A17-IAB IAB Solenoid Pink, n/a
A18-Org/Red, Transmission Control Module (A/T), n/a
A19-White, Intake control solenoid, Battery Voltage KEY ON ENGINE OFF
A20-PCS EVAP purge control solenoid Red/Grn, n/a
A21-ICM Yel/Grn, Ignition Control Module output signal, About 10V KEY ON ENGINE OFF
A22-Igniter, same as A21
A23-PG1 ground Black, Power ground, less than 1V
A24-PG2 ground same as A23
A25-IGP2 to main relay and to ground Yel/blk, Battery positive from Main relay, Battery Voltage with KEY ON ENGINE OFF
A26-LG1 gound Blk/red, less than 1V
B1-IGP2 to pin A25 Yel/Blk, Battery positive from Main relay, Battery Voltage with KEY ON ENGINE OFF
B2-LG2 ground to shields for CYP & TDC Brown/Blk, <1V
B3-Orange, upshift/downshift comparative input, n/a
B4-Pink, upshift/downshift comparative input, n/a
B5-ACS a/c switch Blu/Blk, a/c input, ~5V with KEY ON ENGINE OFF & A/C off; <1V with KEY ON ENGINE RUNNING and A/C & blower on
B6-empty
B7-Light green, Park/Neutral switch (A/T), <1V in Park or Neutral with KEY ON ENGINE OFF; 5V in Park or neutral with KEY ON ENGINE RUNNING; Battery voltage in all other positions
B8-PSPSW PSP switch Red/Green, Power steering oil pressure switch, 0V with KEY ON ENGINE OFF; Battery Voltage with KEY ON ENGINE RUNNING While slowly turning steering wheel
B9-STARTER SIGNAL starter signal Blue/red, Battery Voltage in the START position (clutch depressed on M/T models)
B10-VSS vehicle speed sensor Orange, Pulses 0-12V while turning the left front wheel
B11-CYP P CYP(#1 piston position) -P Orange, CYP sensor input, n/a
B12-CYP M CYP -M White, CYP sensor signal, n/a
B13-TDC P TDC(top dead ceter) -P Org/Blue, TDC sensor input, n/a
B14-TDC M TDC -M Wht/Blue, TDC sensor signal, n/a
B15-CKP P CKP(crank position) -P Blu/Green, CKP Sensor input, n/a
B16-CKP M CKP -M Blu/yel, CKP Sensor signal, n/a

D1-VBU Back Up Power Wht/Yel, Battery positive From battery through Fuse Box, Battery Voltage at ALL times
D2-BKSW brake switch Grn/wht, Battery voltage at all times
D3-KS Knock Sensor Red/Blue, n/a
D4-SCS service check connector Brown/Wht, ~5V (M/T); ~11V (A/T)
D5-empty
D6-VTM VTEC pressure switch Light Blue, n/a
D7-TXD/RXD (data link connector) Light Green/Red, n/a
D8-empty
D9-ALT F alternator Wht/Red, Alternator Charging Signal, ~4.5V with KEY ON ENGINE OFF; Decreases under Electrical load (Headlights & rear defogger on) At warm idle
D10-ELD electric load detector input Grn/Blk, n/a
D11-TPS (throttle position sensor) Signal Red/Blk, ~0.5V with KEY ON ENGINE OFF with throttle fully closed; ~4.5V with KEY ON ENGINE OFF with throttle fully open
D12-Wht/Blk, EGR Valve Lift sensor, ~1.2V with KEY ON ENGINE OFF
D13-ECT (engine coolant temp) sensor input Yel/Blu, ~5V with KEY ON ENGINE OFF (varies with temperature)
D14-PHO2S O2 sensor White, heated 02 sensor Signal, 0.4-0.5V when ignition is turned on; drops to less than 0.1V within 2 minutes
D15-IAT Intake Air Temperature sensor signal Red/Yel, .05-4.5V with KEY ON ENGINE OFF (Varies with temperature)
D16-VREF (no info)
D17-MAP Map Signal Wht/Blu, ~3V with KEY ON ENGINE OFF (Varies with Temperature)
D18-Light Green/Blk, Transmission Control Module (A/T Only), n/a
D19-Red/Wht, Reference Voltage, ~5V with KEY ON ENGINE OFF
D20-Yel/Wht, Reference Voltage, ~5V with KEY ON ENGINE OFF
D21-Blue/Wht, Sensor ground, <1V
D22-Green/Wht, Sensor ground, <1V

djesco wrote:
I dont know why my reply did not show up HUMMMMMmmm interesting to say the least.

In short I bought a 94 Honda Civic EX for this project
I plan to record and measure the signal types while the vehicle is in 3 stages on off running
I also plan to pin out the harness and make one for the gagues so I can monitor them while I am emulating a running engine one I have the signals right.
In short I bought more than 10 harneses for Honda and Integra models made durring 92-95 OBD1 seems there is little diffrence between them durring the initial evaluation. except VTEC and Manual vs Auto Trans. Some of the easy outputs are as follows:
Alternator (56) Analog Mux (54) Ground (59) MAP(60) TPS (61) etc.. and I do mean etc....
The OBD PinOut Schematic OBD1 92-95 seems to be very benificial for this.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 12:50 am 
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Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 2:29 am
Posts: 474
Location: Baton Rouge, LA
Hey guys, I figured you might be interested in seeing this:

Since I am designing that OBD I to OBD II translator, I figured it would be a good idea to be able to test it on the bench.

The hardest part about simulating the engine is the signals coming out of the distributor, so I slapped the scope on my buddy's integra and read out the CYP, TDC, and CKP lines. Here is what I figured out:


The CKP is evidently the 12-Tooth wheel in the distributor, it cycles exactly 6 times for every 1 cycle of the TDC
The TDC is evidently a 4-Tooth wheel, is fires 4 times for every one cycle of the CYP.
The CYP is evidently the 1-Tooth wheel in the distributor, it cycles at about 12Hz at idle, which makes sense:

750RPM/60Seconds = 12.5Hz

Writing code to do this is no problem, but the trick is turning a square wave into a sine wave, or at least a wave that crosses zero.

No problem, I just took 3 lines off my PIC and ran them through a .22uF capacitor in series. Viola! Really nasty waves, but they cross zero ;)

I grabbed my CCS dev board which features a nice potentiometer, some LEDs and a PIC18F4520, powered the ECU, connected CROME Pro and did some datalogging. Works like a charm.

The following code compiles with the CCS C compiler (which I highly recommend). It simply takes the 8-bit Analog voltage off the Potentiometer, scales it, and loads it into Timer 1 (Which is a 16-bit timer). I did the math such that at the lowest potentiometer input,the RPM out would be 800, and at the highest it would be 9400.

Code:
#include <18F4520.h>
#fuses HS,NOPROTECT,NOLVP,NOWDT
#use delay(clock=20000000)

#define CYP PIN_E0   //~12Hz @ Idle
#define TDC PIN_E1     //~48Hz @ Idle
#define CKP PIN_E2     //~288Hz @ Idle

#define MAX_TIMER 65250
#define MIN_TIMER 50000

int1 CYP_STATE = 0;
int1 TDC_STATE = 0;
int1 CKP_STATE = 0;

int   CYP_Count = 0;
int TDC_Count = 0;
int CKP_Count = 0;

void toggle_CYP();
void toggle_TDC();
void toggle_CKP();

int16 delay_value = 100;

#int_timer1
void isr_timer1()
{
   toggle_CKP();
   CKP_Count++;
   if(CKP_Count == 6)
   {
      CKP_COUNT = 0;
      toggle_TDC();
      TDC_Count++;
   }   
   if(TDC_Count == 4)
   {
      TDC_Count = 0;
      toggle_CYP();
   }
   set_timer1(delay_value);
}   


void main()
{
   int x, y, z;
   int16 delay = 5;
   
   
   setup_adc(ADC_CLOCK_INTERNAL);
   set_adc_channel( 0 );
   delay_ms(2);
   delay_value = read_adc();
   
   setup_timer_1 ( T1_INTERNAL | T1_DIV_BY_1 );

   enable_interrupts(int_timer1);
   enable_interrupts(global);
   
   while(1)
   {
      disable_interrupts(global);
      delay_value = read_adc();
      delay_value *= 56;
      delay_value += MIN_TIMER;
      enable_interrupts(global);
      delay_ms(10);
   }   

}

void toggle_CYP()
{
   switch(CYP_state)
   {
      case 0:
         output_high(CYP);
         output_high(PIN_A5);
         break;
      case 1:
         output_low(CYP);
         output_low(PIN_A5);
         break;
   }
   CYP_state = !CYP_state;
   return;
}         
   
   
void toggle_TDC()
{
   switch(TDC_state)
   {
      case 0:
         output_high(TDC);
         output_high(PIN_B4);
         break;
      case 1:
         output_low(TDC);
         output_low(PIN_B4);
         break;
   }
   TDC_state = !TDC_state;
   return;
}         

void toggle_CKP()
{
   switch(CKP_state)
   {
      case 0:
         output_high(CKP);
         output_high(PIN_B5);
         break;
      case 1:
         output_low(CKP);
         output_low(PIN_B5);
         break;
   }
   CKP_state = !CKP_state;
   return;
}         


I slapped together a board and I'm getting it printed this week.

With any luck, I'll be using this as part of my gauge display at the Moates booth December 11 at PRI. W00t.

Image


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 9:03 am 
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Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 2:16 am
Posts: 435
Location: Puerto Rico
Djesco, I just viewed this post and saw you whre looking for me but I never got an alert from the forum that this post had been updated.

Anyway, let me know how I can help and how you sim is coming along.

GSR Turbo,

Is that cool item for sale?


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